RE: Insane off-road TC testing
Just goes to show there are rednecks all over the world. I wonder how you say, "Hold my beer and watch this" in German.
Halten sie mein bier und beobachten
RE: Big Bend NP & Fort Davis Texas
You mean that there isn't an entire nuclear sub buried under that sail? ;)
In terms of silversand's comment, while I have a Photobucket account, I did not log in (nor did it automatically recognize me), so using your bigbend password brought the slide show up with no problems for me.
RE: Big Bend NP & Fort Davis Texas
Ben,
Well, it certainly looks like you and Tory had a great trip. Definitely plenty of solitude at Big Bend. In terms of the cactus you weren't sure about ... that is a cholla (I believe a buckhorn type). You also got another cholla later in your slide show, I believe a pencil variety (with the red "fruit" ... sometimes referred to as the Christmas Cholla). And that sub conning tower (or perhaps I should say "sail") at Passing Wind had the wrong number on it ... it should have been 667. :B
Thanks for sharing your trip!
Don
On edit: I looked up the white rock deposit on the USGS website for Big Bend, and here is their quote (showing more or less the same photo you had) ... "The outcrop consists of Miocene age volcanic tuff overlying faulted pale gray and red beds of volcanic ash and stream channel deposits of the Delaho Formation".
RE: Lance Kool-aid drinkers need not enter
btggraphix,
You see this thread and the other thread from this OP basically with the same conclusion I came to. there's no end to issues he can find and Lance could never satisfy him. Some people are like that! Overloading a chicken with meaningless chicken feed makes them full of the ccrapp and very tired of seeing the garbage you're shoving down their throat, so they turn away.
I owned a business for so many years and can tell you gobs of true stories of what "some" customers are like! It starts with "I want the very cheapest price on your product" but it must be totally perfect in every way or I'll haunt you and make your life miserable! You learn to walk away from those kind rather quickly as nothing you can do is enough for them...************** I don't know what business you ran, but whatever it was, I count myself quite lucky indeed to have never been subject to your overtly imperious attitude and superior business tone towards what you define as either people or customers. So there ... :p
RE: Lance Kool-aid drinkers need not enter
PS: One useful thing has come out of this.....unless I just hadn't noticed it, Testudo has come from the shadows and posted. While I have gotten marginally into arguments at times in the past with him....I kind of miss his knowledge, in spite of him shouting OUTFITTER all the time at us in his posts. ;) Glad to see you around here again Testudo.So, what's wrong with an Outfitter Brian? :p
(What out of control thread would be complete without that?) ;)
RE: Tank Level display panel
Yep mrblaine, the typical tank level display units are a bit of a joke at times. Mine goes from intermittently accurate (I think), to definitely inaccurate.
I am not going to do it right away, but when the time comes, I am going to go with SeeLevel Gauges from Garnet Technologies. I first heard about these in Mooney's recent thread on his new Host Everest TC. They look damn good and I have heard good things about them (both from their sensor design as well as the read-out/display unit).
RE: Lance Kool-aid drinkers need not enter
I like Kool-aid. What's wrong with Kool-aid?
To be historically correct, the say is
Don't drink the Flavor AidAmazing! I never heard that before. I'll bet Kool-Aid was none too happy with having their brand erroneously linked to the Jonestown mass suicide (which it has ever since).
RE: Lance Kool-aid drinkers need not enter
As I don't own a Lance, have a dog in the hunt, and the OP is more than capable of stating his own case, I probably shouldn't step into this anymore than I have. However, it has been my impression that some members of this board (one in particular), have previously been, shall I say, less than supportive of mrblaine's travails and previous threads regarding same, and in a number of past cases he essentially ended up being blamed in some way for even the more major issues associated with his TC (or when asking an otherwise straightforward question regarding contact information for someone he was trying to get in touch with at Lance).
RE: Lance Kool-aid drinkers need not enter
Actually, I think sleepy passed on the whine cellar in favor of the heated dungeon option.
BTW, what kind of whine do you have in your whine cellar mrblaine? Keep any cheese in there as well? ;)
RE: Lance Kool-aid drinkers need not enter
mrblaine,
Sorry to hear that you are having more problems with an expensive camper that has already proven to be problem prone. But irritated or not I think your case could be better made without the sarcastic and insulting tone.
BradAlthough (like some of the other posters in this thread) I had no problem with mrblaine's tone, perhaps your admonishment should have been more appropriately handled as a PM.
RE: Tundra vs absorption fridge power consumption
Well, that's it. I am definitely going to run right out and rip my Tundra fridge right out of my camper and order a 3-way fridge before the world comes to an end.Dang, I wish I would have read this yesterday morning from my stolen WiFI signal or I would have offered to haul the fridge off to the dump for you (or maybe taken it home?) :)That post yesterday afternoon didn't happen until after you left our place in the morning, but I have to admit, that's pretty funny Brian.
I have to say that in spite of this sounding a bit like fighting and all, it does represent the reasonable answers and discussion for the question."... reasonable answers and discussion"?? While I agree that AllenF and many of the other posters were reasonable in their posts, you'll have to excuse me for having a somewhat different perspective for some of the rest of the "stuff" in this thread Brian.
AllenF does sum things up pretty well, in particular this part here:When boon-docking with no ability to restock suppies, water and power are the two to go first. Adding solar and having good sun will extend the power side but water will not be helped. Since you roughly know how long all your supplies will typically last, having enough of each one to have them all end at the same time IMO makes the most sense. We will have to break camp anyways so stretching things out evenly you will be able to stay the longest.
Having to spend $1-2K on solar to keep the refer cold when the water and food have long since gone may not make the best sense. IMO
Balance and return on investment IMO are best.Just to again clarify my personal situation with my Outfitter Apex 8, I did NOT have "to spend $1-2K on solar to keep the refer cold when the water and food have long since gone ...". That is simply a "one size fits all" statement that does not necessarily or equally apply to all TC's or their owners IMO. I have a 44 gallon fresh water tank in my lowly pop-up (not counting the additional 15+ gallons I carry in my truck), which is more than in your expedition rig Brian, and I have never even come close to running out of water or food on any trip or under any circumstance as AllenF contends will apparently be the inevitable outcome. I also opted for solar for its ability to add some additional energy back into my battery bank ... and not to solely justify the purchase and use of a compressor style refrigerator (the latter of which seems to have generated so much commentary and flak in this thread).
Most importantly, this piece (I didn't want to lose it's context)"having enough of each one to have them all end at the same time IMO makes the most sense"I certainly don't disagree with this concept.
It's that balance you want.... Propane for most of us, has never even remotely approached the limiting factor which is I wanted to dismiss that one notion of Steve's. The other pieces are closer together....and one variable that ends up changing all the equations: a generator. If you have one, and don't mind running one (and especially if you are in remote/boonddocking areas by yourself) all of a sudden who cares if you even have solar or poor batteries?Well, I guess I am the odd man out on this, but I do in fact care that I have all systems up to snuff as best as I can manage ... anything from good batteries, to a good inverter/converter/charger, to a good generator, to good solar, to an adequate propane supply.
That's the argument that a number of my friends make when they want to give me a hard time for dreaming about giant battery banks and solar and there is some merit to it. Here's a little supporting factoid for that....I had my new camper for over 6 months before I even realized it (the solar) isn't working AT ALL! Doh! I discovered on a really sunny day my charge controller wasn't showing the little red light on in my cupboard. Hadn't even thought to check it... So I need to fix it, but....I haven't gotten around to it, and it hasn't even impacted me yet in any significant way. During longer stays in one spot where I might have wanted it working, I've typically turned on my Honda to watch some TV and/or one of the other people who don't have as good an electrical system as me had theirs on anyway.
I've definitely had some chuckles on this thread......we all actually mostly agree with each other, yet it doesn't sound that way.My final comment on all of this is that what largely goes on in this forum is the same old same old IMO ... the typically superficial "Ford versus Chevy" baloney where anyone deviating from what the majority, the so-called experts, and/or die-hard supporters of this and that define as the stock and standard approach, is somehow weird, out of touch, or represents being some kind of elitist. I really don't care what anyone decides to purchase as their choice in a truck, a TC, or what options they decide they want or need, as I believe this is a free country and anyone can do what they want based on their desires or their pocketbook. I bought my camper and truck for my wife and I to enjoy, and not to join some popularity contest or to fit in with one group or another on this forum. From what I have seen over the last two years of being a member of this board is that most of this stuff rarely solves anything or changes anyone's mind, and is largely a waste of time (which in all fairness, is not unique to RV.net as a forum). Based on this, I plan to waste a lot less time on this forum.
Don
RE: Covered her up today
What's a "season"?
(70 and sunny in San Diego today - again)The season in question is the "winter season". I was born in San Diego and am well aware of the lack of such in sunny Southern California. Care to come camping out here ... let's say in January? ;)
RE: Tundra vs absorption fridge power consumption
Just to help cool things down a bit....
Compressor refers are the best all around but they are not without their own limitations just like absorptive refers too.
In the pop up world these are better due to the pop up being more room challenged.
I have not looked but I think 2 propane tanks would not be as common as in full hard sided TC's. So there will be 1/2 as much to work with. Also refers in pop ups tend to be about 4 cu.ft.
Full size TC's start at 6cu.ft and ours is 9.5 cu.ft.
Again size will limit what can be done. These are generalities but none the less need to be added to the conversation.
I see pop ups as one end of the TC world and Monster slides at the other extreme. Most are, as to be expected, in the more modest middle.
Folks here are not usually on the bleeding edge of technology. The propane fired refer is economical to own and run. It is IMO at the sweet spot in the RV refer world. All will be using propane to power their hot water and stoves and furnaces. Nearly all will use propane for their refers too.
Since this is 99% fact whether your refer is propane powered or not will have little impact on your propane usage when you have 2 20lb or even 30lb tanks. Your furnace will be most likely you biggest concern. Both for propane and 12volt power usage in cold weather. Hence why many are adding a catalytic furnace to help save on both.
When boon-docking with no ability to restock suppies, water and power are the two to go first. Adding solar and having good sun will extend the power side but water will not be helped. Since you roughly know how long all your supplies will typically last, having enough of each one to have them all end at the same time IMO makes the most sense. We will have to break camp anyways so stretching things out evenly you will be able to stay the longest.
Having to spend $1-2K on solar to keep the refer cold when the water and food have long since gone may not make the best sense. IMO
Balance and return on investment IMO are best.
So what is this all leading to?
In order to get the best return on our investment we must know what and how we will use the TC and what we want to get out of it.
Armed with this punch list we then can select those items that will enhance our camping experience without costing more than is absolutely necessary.Allen,
I appreciate your balanced post. And I fully agree, the pop-up portion of the overall TC market is a small portion indeed. But let's remember (and this is not aimed at you), that the OP in this thread resides in California and is not only purchasing a pop-up, but is purchasing an Outfitter. As a pop-up and Outfitter owner located in the western United States, I would like to think that I could express my opinions about what was being asked by the OP without being assailed by the "Great One" (apparently representing all of TCdom). That said, I expressed my opinions based on my actual experience and had no intention of expecting that my point of view needed to be carved on granite tablets.
In terms of propane, I have an installed "hot" 20 lb propane tank and a back-up 20 lb tank for my Outfitter Apex 8 TC, and I have never run out to date (in fact, I typically never even get into the back-up tank). I also agree that the furnace represents the primary consumption of both electrical and propane resources (at least overnight), and not a Tundra compressor style fridge.
With regard to the "bleeding edge of technology", I agree that most either don't know, don't care, or can't afford same. Here again, while I am personally interested in technology and the associated bells & whistles, I am not so naive or arrogant as to think that others need to be. But I think it is frankly over the top and unreasonable to assume that all such technological items are simply the result of someone being bilked by "BS promoters" as travelnutz contends.
Along the lines of boondocking sustainability (and in terms of what's in my Apex 8), I have 44 gallons of fresh water, plenty of food storage (largely outside of my 4.2 cu. ft. Tundra fridge), 220W of solar with an MPPT controller, two Trojan T-145 batteries, a Honda EU2000i generator, 40 lbs of propane, and so on. As such, I can sustain my wife and I for some time with that line up if that was needed. However, I realize that everyone does not have this array of items, nor am I suggesting that they do. I will say though that I did NOT spend the extra money on solar and a controller just for the sake of having a Tundra compressor style fridge (although I will again state that I probably wouldn't have gone the route of getting a Tundra without solar). I honestly got these items for what I felt was a prudent adjunct for keeping my battery bank charged up (from multiple sources). If anyone feels that this is a waste of money, not needed, or that I can't get a decent return on my investment ... fine. But really, if we're going to question every expenditure on what an individual wants as an option in their RV as a function of what they want to use it for and where ... then what about the much larger expenditures associated with the RV and truck to haul the RV itself?? Are either of these necessities of life when it comes right down to it??
In closing, I think that your comment of, "In order to get the best return on our investment we must know what and how we will use the TC and what we want to get out of it", hits the nail on the head. For some, this means spending a lot of their money for what they want. For others, that will be a more minimalist list at less cost for the bare necessities they need. There really isn't any "right" answer, except for the individual. The OP has apparently gotten enough input to make his decision to go with a 3-way fridge in his new Outfitter and I respect that, independent of what path I chose.
Don
RE: Tundra vs absorption fridge power consumption
Ah, I see ... so you're the self-proclaimed spokesperson for the vast majority of RV'ers. Do I need to pay homage at some alter? :R
I couldn't care less if you feel that I am in some minority or fringe group of RV'ers, and if I want to proceed on what you feel is some Burger King philosophy of "having it my way" and that's accomplished by way of money out of my pocket and not someone else's, what business is it of yours?
I am certainly not recommending that everyone go out and get a compressor fridge, a generator, or solar for their RV if they are not interested or inclined ... I was simply challenging your rather dogmatic and matter of fact points about the apparent folly of going with a compressor fridge over a 3-way and the inevitable demise of one's electrical system in the process. Contrary to your assertion, I was also not monolithically suggesting that "normal RV'ers" don't have different needs, wants, and uses ... in fact, from the tone and content of your condescending response, I would submit that you are the one coming across as being the end-all-be-all arbiter of what RV'ers should be (or shouldn't be) going with.
And please professor, I don't need any education on geographical and weather differences pertaining to various points on the North American continent ... I think I can handle my own on those subjects without the benefit of your vast reservoir of knowledge. Here again, I was not suggesting that someone located in areas subject to for example, 270 days of fog per year (or other such local limitations), run right out and get solar panels.
And please keep in mind that I have propane and use it in my camper for heating, cooking, and hot water. Somehow you have mistakenly painted a picture that I am somehow anti-propane. You apparently missed the fact that I even agreed with you and btggrapghix in that I did not buy into the contention that a 3-way fridge used an excessive amount of propane when in that mode of operation. Moreover, I am also not some do or die solar proponent. I additionally do not think that solar is the singular answer and I agree that it is part of the potential energy producing mix in an RV.
Bottom-line, if someone wants to add solar or a compressor fridge to their campers, I see nothing wrong with that, and I disagree with your rather simplistic and cheap shot characterization that if one does go with either of these, that they have been subject to being led by the nose by some "pie in the sky" BS promoters.
RE: Tundra vs absorption fridge power consumption
Well, that's it. I am definitely going to run right out and rip my Tundra fridge right out of my camper and order a 3-way fridge before the world comes to an end. Since I only have two solar panels and two lead acid batteries and rarely camp with full sun exposure (as well as rarely running my Honda generator), I had no idea I was living in such a dreamworld of thinking I had no problems with depleted batteries (that typically do not get much lower than 12.4 volts overnight, even with that pesky Tundra humming along).
I am not sure I buy into the additional propane usage concerns with a 3-way fridge, but I am also not buying into this "sky is falling" scenario with a Tundra compressor fridge either, as I have been quite successfully using one in an essentially 100% boondocking mode and without any battery capacity or depletion drama. And if I need to run my A/C, yes, I will crank up my Honda, as I haven't previously heard anyone seriously suggest you can run one off of solar or batteries (or that one has to sweat it out until things cool off in the evening).
RE: "Best Meals in a Truck Camper"
OK Joe ... I guess I'll have to break down and try some of today's "new" Spam.
Got Spam? :B
I hope that's not for breakfast ;) French Toast sounds much better.We just noticed that we're fresh out of eggs, so Spam it is Brian. :E
